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	<title>Comments on: Why The Telcos Are Doomed</title>
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	<link>http://www.thewavingcat.com/2009/03/24/why-the-telcos-are-doomed/</link>
	<description>[The Waving Cat: 'cause it's good luck AND shiny plastic]</description>
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		<title>By: emzo</title>
		<link>http://www.thewavingcat.com/2009/03/24/why-the-telcos-are-doomed/comment-page-1/#comment-95116</link>
		<dc:creator>emzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 21:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thewavingcat.com/?p=1704#comment-95116</guid>
		<description>Since I´m working with the charging model of a big german telco I know the problems coming with them, to me and the customer. The pricing is horrobly incomprehensible. Too many &quot;options&quot;, too many &quot;extras&quot;, &quot;add-ons&quot; and &quot;possibilities&quot;. Let´s get to a straight pricing, understandable charging models and the customer will reward this. 
As I said before I`m in the &quot;lucky&quot; position to have a special business customer service. Free 24/7 help hotline, NO tape, but: well educated people trying to help you and find fast and suitable solutions for each problem you face them, no matter when, how often or why you call them.
 
I think these two points, good pricing paired with good service, will be the key for the future to maintain your customers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since I´m working with the charging model of a big german telco I know the problems coming with them, to me and the customer. The pricing is horrobly incomprehensible. Too many &#8220;options&#8221;, too many &#8220;extras&#8221;, &#8220;add-ons&#8221; and &#8220;possibilities&#8221;. Let´s get to a straight pricing, understandable charging models and the customer will reward this.<br />
As I said before I`m in the &#8220;lucky&#8221; position to have a special business customer service. Free 24/7 help hotline, NO tape, but: well educated people trying to help you and find fast and suitable solutions for each problem you face them, no matter when, how often or why you call them.</p>
<p>I think these two points, good pricing paired with good service, will be the key for the future to maintain your customers.</p>
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		<title>By: Brent G</title>
		<link>http://www.thewavingcat.com/2009/03/24/why-the-telcos-are-doomed/comment-page-1/#comment-94992</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 21:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thewavingcat.com/?p=1704#comment-94992</guid>
		<description>You hit the nail on the head with this post. There are fundamental problems at the Telcos. I can imagine that it would be almost impossibly hard to change the set culture that has pervaded these machines in order to get back to a customer-centric business. Here&#039;s hoping.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You hit the nail on the head with this post. There are fundamental problems at the Telcos. I can imagine that it would be almost impossibly hard to change the set culture that has pervaded these machines in order to get back to a customer-centric business. Here&#8217;s hoping.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Bihr</title>
		<link>http://www.thewavingcat.com/2009/03/24/why-the-telcos-are-doomed/comment-page-1/#comment-94969</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Bihr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thewavingcat.com/?p=1704#comment-94969</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://dirk.songuer.de/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dirk&lt;/a&gt;, thanks for the in-depth feedback. Some great points, and of course you&#039;re right, I was over-generalizing to make my point. 

As for renting vs building infrastructure: Not sure this is really as huge a problem as it seems - after all, we&#039;re seeing the same trend in parts of the web infrastructure. Take cloud computing as opposed to running your own servers etc. Since there clearly is a demand for rented infrastructure, I&#039;d be surprised if there weren&#039;t a market. 

Speaking of market, you mentioned that it&#039;s normal that companies charge what the market is willing to pay. Correct, of course, but I think that&#039;s changing now. People used to cough up what, 12c or so per minute in a regional call, which would seem ridiculous now with all the flatrates for landlines out there. We saw the same for dial up internet, which was expensive and gave way to much faster &amp; cheaper broadband. I think the moment a company offers a decent (and transparent!) set of plans, they&#039;ll notice how large the gap has become between the existing pricing models and the market&#039;s real willingness to pay up.

And yes, you&#039;re absolutely right: if a company did act according to the demands outlined above, most of us (including me) wouldn&#039;t mind the longer contracts. Then again, that kind of company wouldn&#039;t require them anyway ;)

Thanks again for your valuable input!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dirk.songuer.de/" rel="nofollow">Dirk</a>, thanks for the in-depth feedback. Some great points, and of course you&#8217;re right, I was over-generalizing to make my point. </p>
<p>As for renting vs building infrastructure: Not sure this is really as huge a problem as it seems &#8211; after all, we&#8217;re seeing the same trend in parts of the web infrastructure. Take cloud computing as opposed to running your own servers etc. Since there clearly is a demand for rented infrastructure, I&#8217;d be surprised if there weren&#8217;t a market. </p>
<p>Speaking of market, you mentioned that it&#8217;s normal that companies charge what the market is willing to pay. Correct, of course, but I think that&#8217;s changing now. People used to cough up what, 12c or so per minute in a regional call, which would seem ridiculous now with all the flatrates for landlines out there. We saw the same for dial up internet, which was expensive and gave way to much faster &#038; cheaper broadband. I think the moment a company offers a decent (and transparent!) set of plans, they&#8217;ll notice how large the gap has become between the existing pricing models and the market&#8217;s real willingness to pay up.</p>
<p>And yes, you&#8217;re absolutely right: if a company did act according to the demands outlined above, most of us (including me) wouldn&#8217;t mind the longer contracts. Then again, that kind of company wouldn&#8217;t require them anyway ;)</p>
<p>Thanks again for your valuable input!</p>
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		<title>By: Hawe</title>
		<link>http://www.thewavingcat.com/2009/03/24/why-the-telcos-are-doomed/comment-page-1/#comment-94967</link>
		<dc:creator>Hawe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 17:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thewavingcat.com/?p=1704#comment-94967</guid>
		<description>Hi, beeing used to read write and sometimes think &quot;in english&quot; for some reasons of beeing precise I will use my native language: 
Die kurzanalyse von Peter Bihr ist zutreffend - aber wohlfeil. Richtig - aber partikulär. analytisch - ist aber anekdotisch.
 
wohlfeil deshalb, weil  Nickweisheiten publiziert werden. Nickweisheiten sind welche, zu denen alle die selbe Meinung haben müssen (hat nicht jeder zumindest einen Freund, dessen Schwager von einer Telco mal schlecht behandelt wurde ...

partikulär weil diese allgemeine analyse über eine branche den ungenutzten nucleus einer tiefgreifenden analyse in sich trägt. Ungenutzter Nucleus? Ich nehme Deinen Text und mit &quot;suchen / ersetzen&quot; dichte ich ihn  um in Versicherungen, Banken, Autohersteller, Lebensmitteldiscounter, Berater, &quot;die&quot; Internetbranche - es passt, oder?

anekdotisch weil sie nicht faktenbasiert ist. aber das muss ein blog auch nicht sein.
 
was wäre wenn die krise der banken eine krise der gesamten wirtschaft wäre? lese ich im Blog  &quot;shift happens&quot;. und stimme dem zu.

was wäre wenn nicht allein die telcos - sondern &quot;die wirtschaft&quot; doomed ist? das eigentliche problem ist imho, dass unser aktuelles wirtschaftssystem dominiert wird von Unternehmen, die wenig achtsam mit sich, ihren  mitarbeitern, den kunden umgehen. 

respektlos auf &quot;ihr&quot; singuläres wachstum setzen . keine team-player sind. sind marathonläuferInnen, keine fussballspielerInnen.
 
Aber: I agree telcos are doomed, that&#039;s for sure. and with them many others ..... 

tnx to Peter Bihr for starting this Post with his analysis.

Hawe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, beeing used to read write and sometimes think &#8220;in english&#8221; for some reasons of beeing precise I will use my native language:<br />
Die kurzanalyse von Peter Bihr ist zutreffend &#8211; aber wohlfeil. Richtig &#8211; aber partikulär. analytisch &#8211; ist aber anekdotisch.</p>
<p>wohlfeil deshalb, weil  Nickweisheiten publiziert werden. Nickweisheiten sind welche, zu denen alle die selbe Meinung haben müssen (hat nicht jeder zumindest einen Freund, dessen Schwager von einer Telco mal schlecht behandelt wurde &#8230;</p>
<p>partikulär weil diese allgemeine analyse über eine branche den ungenutzten nucleus einer tiefgreifenden analyse in sich trägt. Ungenutzter Nucleus? Ich nehme Deinen Text und mit &#8220;suchen / ersetzen&#8221; dichte ich ihn  um in Versicherungen, Banken, Autohersteller, Lebensmitteldiscounter, Berater, &#8220;die&#8221; Internetbranche &#8211; es passt, oder?</p>
<p>anekdotisch weil sie nicht faktenbasiert ist. aber das muss ein blog auch nicht sein.</p>
<p>was wäre wenn die krise der banken eine krise der gesamten wirtschaft wäre? lese ich im Blog  &#8220;shift happens&#8221;. und stimme dem zu.</p>
<p>was wäre wenn nicht allein die telcos &#8211; sondern &#8220;die wirtschaft&#8221; doomed ist? das eigentliche problem ist imho, dass unser aktuelles wirtschaftssystem dominiert wird von Unternehmen, die wenig achtsam mit sich, ihren  mitarbeitern, den kunden umgehen. </p>
<p>respektlos auf &#8220;ihr&#8221; singuläres wachstum setzen . keine team-player sind. sind marathonläuferInnen, keine fussballspielerInnen.</p>
<p>Aber: I agree telcos are doomed, that&#8217;s for sure. and with them many others &#8230;.. </p>
<p>tnx to Peter Bihr for starting this Post with his analysis.</p>
<p>Hawe</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Bihr</title>
		<link>http://www.thewavingcat.com/2009/03/24/why-the-telcos-are-doomed/comment-page-1/#comment-94959</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Bihr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thewavingcat.com/?p=1704#comment-94959</guid>
		<description>Good point &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pl0g.de/wordpress/author/mc_o/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;emzo&lt;/a&gt; - for corporate clients the telco world looks often different. As a freelancer I only have hearsay reports about the situation there - anyone with first hand experiences there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point <a href="http://www.pl0g.de/wordpress/author/mc_o/" rel="nofollow">emzo</a> &#8211; for corporate clients the telco world looks often different. As a freelancer I only have hearsay reports about the situation there &#8211; anyone with first hand experiences there?</p>
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		<title>By: Dirk</title>
		<link>http://www.thewavingcat.com/2009/03/24/why-the-telcos-are-doomed/comment-page-1/#comment-94958</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 15:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thewavingcat.com/?p=1704#comment-94958</guid>
		<description>Hm, I think you got the right conclusions on what would make the telco market better and help it improve. Although I think you seriously stumbled at the reasoning.

Now, let&#039;s see..

&quot;Nobody Likes Telcos&quot;. Overgeneralized, thank you. Me, I&#039;m quite happy with my telco now although I did change it to get there. But maybe that&#039;s just me (although I don&#039;t think so).

Concerning bad service and 5 people telling you 8 things: I think most of that comes from franchising. The actual problem I think is that 5 people that can make you 8 different offers that are all valid. While it might be nice for the customers to have that kind of freedom, it totally rips apart any transparency there could have been. Same goes for your &quot;trust&quot; issues.

&quot;Phone companies charge too much for what they offer.&quot; .. &quot;All of these are set in a way not to cover the companies expenses (and of course some profit), but based on what the market used to be willing to pay.&quot;

No, really? A company that sets the price according to demand and what the customer is willing to pay? Yes, that makes sense. Even more so because that&#039;s the way prices are normally set. Why would any sane company set the price lower than what people are willing to pay?

Let&#039;s face it: if we pay it, they will offer it for that exact price.

&quot;If customers commit to a 2-year-contract it’s easier to calculate&quot;. Right. And you have to calculate damn well to even remotely consider building up your own mobile network infrastructure.

Even if you don&#039;t actually own your own infrastructure, you&#039;re renting slots from someone that has one - and to guarantee your access to it, you have to plan in advance. But agreed, 2 years is a tad long. 3-6 months should do in this case. But who builds and operates the networks then, if everybody is renting? And if everybody is renting, the prices of the networks to rent from will soar.

So, yes, it telcos could do a lot better in the customer care and transparency department. Other than that: mobile networks are sadly pretty complex to build and maintain. So we won&#039;t see lots of new national players with their own networks.

And that&#039;s the real reason I think they should address the things on your list. Because the one that does get the customer support and transparency right would have a HUGE advantage over the others. Hell, even with Lock-In and the current price, I&#039;d be there. And I think you&#039;d be there, too. Because who&#039;d care if there was a 2 year Lock-In if the company would be that way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm, I think you got the right conclusions on what would make the telco market better and help it improve. Although I think you seriously stumbled at the reasoning.</p>
<p>Now, let&#8217;s see..</p>
<p>&#8220;Nobody Likes Telcos&#8221;. Overgeneralized, thank you. Me, I&#8217;m quite happy with my telco now although I did change it to get there. But maybe that&#8217;s just me (although I don&#8217;t think so).</p>
<p>Concerning bad service and 5 people telling you 8 things: I think most of that comes from franchising. The actual problem I think is that 5 people that can make you 8 different offers that are all valid. While it might be nice for the customers to have that kind of freedom, it totally rips apart any transparency there could have been. Same goes for your &#8220;trust&#8221; issues.</p>
<p>&#8220;Phone companies charge too much for what they offer.&#8221; .. &#8220;All of these are set in a way not to cover the companies expenses (and of course some profit), but based on what the market used to be willing to pay.&#8221;</p>
<p>No, really? A company that sets the price according to demand and what the customer is willing to pay? Yes, that makes sense. Even more so because that&#8217;s the way prices are normally set. Why would any sane company set the price lower than what people are willing to pay?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s face it: if we pay it, they will offer it for that exact price.</p>
<p>&#8220;If customers commit to a 2-year-contract it’s easier to calculate&#8221;. Right. And you have to calculate damn well to even remotely consider building up your own mobile network infrastructure.</p>
<p>Even if you don&#8217;t actually own your own infrastructure, you&#8217;re renting slots from someone that has one &#8211; and to guarantee your access to it, you have to plan in advance. But agreed, 2 years is a tad long. 3-6 months should do in this case. But who builds and operates the networks then, if everybody is renting? And if everybody is renting, the prices of the networks to rent from will soar.</p>
<p>So, yes, it telcos could do a lot better in the customer care and transparency department. Other than that: mobile networks are sadly pretty complex to build and maintain. So we won&#8217;t see lots of new national players with their own networks.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s the real reason I think they should address the things on your list. Because the one that does get the customer support and transparency right would have a HUGE advantage over the others. Hell, even with Lock-In and the current price, I&#8217;d be there. And I think you&#8217;d be there, too. Because who&#8217;d care if there was a 2 year Lock-In if the company would be that way?</p>
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		<title>By: emzo</title>
		<link>http://www.thewavingcat.com/2009/03/24/why-the-telcos-are-doomed/comment-page-1/#comment-94950</link>
		<dc:creator>emzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 14:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thewavingcat.com/?p=1704#comment-94950</guid>
		<description>Nice picture of the status quo. As a business customer of t-mobile I have to add, that I am pretty contented with the service t-mobile provides with its customers.
But unfortunately this is the exceptional case for a german telco. Besides the german communication market has to modernise its format, there a a lot of countries where prices are at a level we can´t dream of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice picture of the status quo. As a business customer of t-mobile I have to add, that I am pretty contented with the service t-mobile provides with its customers.<br />
But unfortunately this is the exceptional case for a german telco. Besides the german communication market has to modernise its format, there a a lot of countries where prices are at a level we can´t dream of.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Bihr</title>
		<link>http://www.thewavingcat.com/2009/03/24/why-the-telcos-are-doomed/comment-page-1/#comment-94942</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Bihr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thewavingcat.com/?p=1704#comment-94942</guid>
		<description>Thanks! Strangely, that last part of the telcos listening i&#039;ve heard a few times as feedback. There certainly seems to be some demand here. Who knows, maybe they have staff who&#039;s reading this blog? If so, please feel free to weigh in...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks! Strangely, that last part of the telcos listening i&#8217;ve heard a few times as feedback. There certainly seems to be some demand here. Who knows, maybe they have staff who&#8217;s reading this blog? If so, please feel free to weigh in&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.thewavingcat.com/2009/03/24/why-the-telcos-are-doomed/comment-page-1/#comment-94932</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 10:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thewavingcat.com/?p=1704#comment-94932</guid>
		<description>Spinning the Vodafone Live platform as data flatrate with &quot;unlimited surfing&quot; was the biggest sales pitch joke I had ever heard. If your online experience consists of listening to a handful of pop songs and checking your phone bill, way the hell would you buy a smart phone!? 

Peter, thanks for the constructive rant. Hope the telcos are listening! (^_^)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spinning the Vodafone Live platform as data flatrate with &#8220;unlimited surfing&#8221; was the biggest sales pitch joke I had ever heard. If your online experience consists of listening to a handful of pop songs and checking your phone bill, way the hell would you buy a smart phone!? </p>
<p>Peter, thanks for the constructive rant. Hope the telcos are listening! (^_^)</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2009-03-25 &#187; Johannes Kleske - tautoko weblog</title>
		<link>http://www.thewavingcat.com/2009/03/24/why-the-telcos-are-doomed/comment-page-1/#comment-94922</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2009-03-25 &#187; Johannes Kleske - tautoko weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 08:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thewavingcat.com/?p=1704#comment-94922</guid>
		<description>[...] Why The Telcos Are Doomed &#124; Peter Bihr (tags: teclo telekom tmobile vodafone mobile via:mento.info) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Why The Telcos Are Doomed | Peter Bihr (tags: teclo telekom tmobile vodafone mobile via:mento.info) [...]</p>
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